[Frank2808]

Lol this thread cracks me up. People on this site will drop $600 on a set of sideskirts that don't fit without thinking but get carzy over some speakers?! You've got a 50k car, just buy a set and return them if they don't meet expectations.

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Ha! We just may do that along with the subwoofer upgrades you'll be getting. We'll have to see what happens and what we have available. Can't make any promises just yet.

I'm here for you, either way.

[ProfessorCook]

FWIW, I ordered and installed the Stage 1 and posted a DIY with pictures that supplements BSW's video. Here's the Bimmerfest link.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=444023

(I'm not trying to drive traffic there, I've just appreciated it in the past when someone there has directed me over here... that sort of thing.)

[VP Electricity]

So, out of curiousity, what did you pay for these?

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by ProfessorCook

FWIW, I ordered and installed the Stage 1 and posted a DIY with pictures that supplements BSW's video. Here's the Bimmerfest link.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=444023

(I'm not trying to drive traffic there, I've just appreciated it in the past when someone there has directed me over here... that sort of thing.)

LOL...I so was gonna post this over here, but I was gonna ask you first.

Looks like you beat me to it.

[chemgeek]

Wow, $630 for 4 tweeters and 7 midrange speakers....must be significantly better than the L7 system, right (sarcasm)? Come on people, really? If you had base audio in a 2010, I could see something like this, but if you already paid the premium for L7, what's the point?

My favorite part was the 20 hour break in period. This is classic, so when you get it installed, initially, you won't hear the "full benefits" and after the 20 hours of break in, you won't remember what the original system sounded like, so instinctively, you'll think it's better. Nice!

[Micah D. Cranman]

Because it's a much nicer sounding system than the Logic7 alone, as this review attests.

Anyway, it's not as simple as you think. Read this and learn:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=90

Second, virtually ALL speakers need break-in time. We don't say it for marketing reasons -- it's because it makes a VERY real difference. If you had any experience in audio whatsoever, you'd know this.

[chemgeek]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Because it's a much nicer sounding system than the Logic7 alone, as this review attests.

Anyway, it's not as simple as you think. Read this and learn:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=90

Second, virtually ALL speakers need break-in time. We don't say it for marketing reasons -- it's because it makes a VERY real difference. If you had any experience in audio whatsoever, you'd know this.

Yes, speakers do have a break-in period, it is a matter of seconds, and it happens at the factory. A speaker system in the context of a cabinet with various drivers may, and I say may, theoretically benefit from a small break in period. Audiophiles have been debating this for years, and I'd categorize it under the chasing the final 5% of sound out of a high end system. If such a break-in were to actually take place, it is not something you are going to hear from speakers like this in a vehicle.

Sorry, don't mean to flame, but.....

[Lee Rambler]

I'd suggest the break in to be longer than normal too, being as the drivers are high passed....

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by chemgeek

Yes, speakers do have a break-in period, it is a matter of seconds, and it happens at the factory. A speaker system in the context of a cabinet with various drivers may, and I say may, theoretically benefit from a small break in period. Audiophiles have been debating this for years, and I'd categorize it under the chasing the final 5% of sound out of a high end system. If such a break-in were to actually take place, it is not something you are going to hear from speakers like this in a vehicle.

Sorry, don't mean to flame, but.....

Gotta disagree with you on this. Various drivers change their behavior to different degrees after some amount of playing. Morel MT-12 smooth out a lot after a couple of hours, and Dynaudio get louder.

Some tweeters get louder, some get softer, some don't change. When you think about the suspension components in a speaker, it only makes sense. Woofers act the same way. I've seen woofers get 3-4dB louder after 4 hours of playing.

I don't go around looking for ways that I agree with Cranman, but as an audiophile who has also been installing speakers for two decades, I'm not going along with that one.

[ProfessorCook]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

So, out of curiousity, what did you pay for these?

I paid the full price ($700) for the speakers and paid extra for two sound deadening packages (twice the material) and got their tool set too. But the BSW guys were nice and threw in the tool set for free (even though I hadn't asked them to do so), so the total came to $740.

Seeing in the other threads how people can be quite cynical, just for the record, nobody from BSW asked me to post any sort of review, good or bad, and I don't view the free tool set as paying for an endorsement, lol.

[VP Electricity]

As far as cynicism goes, I never would have asked you if it hadn't turned out differently in that other thread

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Gotta disagree with you on this. Various drivers change their behavior to different degrees after some amount of playing. Morel MT-12 smooth out a lot after a couple of hours, and Dynaudio get louder.

Some tweeters get louder, some get softer, some don't change. When you think about the suspension components in a speaker, it only makes sense. Woofers act the same way. I've seen woofers get 3-4dB louder after 4 hours of playing.

I don't go around looking for ways that I agree with Cranman, but as an audiophile who has also been installing speakers for two decades, I'm not going along with that one.

I'm with you..seems like this guy has an axe to grind

[ProfessorCook]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

As far as cynicism goes, I never would have asked you if it hadn't turned out differently in that other thread

Man... I'm too tired tonight I guess... I can't quite figure out what you mean by that, lol. No worries.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Gotta disagree with you on this. Various drivers change their behavior to different degrees after some amount of playing. Morel MT-12 smooth out a lot after a couple of hours, and Dynaudio get louder.

Some tweeters get louder, some get softer, some don't change. When you think about the suspension components in a speaker, it only makes sense. Woofers act the same way. I've seen woofers get 3-4dB louder after 4 hours of playing.

I don't go around looking for ways that I agree with Cranman, but as an audiophile who has also been installing speakers for two decades, I'm not going along with that one.

It's OK -- you can call me by my first name, Ken.

[chemgeek]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Gotta disagree with you on this. Various drivers change their behavior to different degrees after some amount of playing. Morel MT-12 smooth out a lot after a couple of hours, and Dynaudio get louder.

Some tweeters get louder, some get softer, some don't change. When you think about the suspension components in a speaker, it only makes sense. Woofers act the same way. I've seen woofers get 3-4dB louder after 4 hours of playing.

I don't go around looking for ways that I agree with Cranman, but as an audiophile who has also been installing speakers for two decades, I'm not going along with that one.

I just don't like questionable advertising. Advertising a "break-in period" IMO is one of the greatest marketing ploys as far as audio sales go. It helps prevent someone from returning a set of speakers he/she doesn't like.

Taken directly from Morel's website, "They [the speakers] are all assembled by hand and extensively tested - undergoing seven different quality tests - to ensure they meet the highest standards." (emphasis added). The speakers are tested throughout their entire frequency range before they leave the factory, meaning each speaker has already seen the extremes of movement and cage flex.

Again, I understand the theory that a speaker might conform to a particular "broken-in" configuration after a given usage time. However, again, would one be able to hear a difference in the cabin of a car like an e9x with road noise?...I doubt it.

[SVO]

Originally Posted by chemgeek

I just don't like questionable advertising. Advertising a "break-in period" IMO is one of the greatest marketing ploys as far as audio sales go. It helps prevent someone from returning a set of speakers he/she doesn't like.

Taken directly from Morel's website, "They [the speakers] are all assembled by hand and extensively tested - undergoing seven different quality tests - to ensure they meet the highest standards." (emphasis added). The speakers are tested throughout their entire frequency range before they leave the factory, meaning each speaker has already seen the extremes of movement and cage flex.

Again, I understand the theory that a speaker might conform to a particular "broken-in" configuration after a given usage time. However, again, would one be able to hear a difference in the cabin of a car like an e9x with road noise?...I doubt it.

Skepticism is good, but know what you're talking about. There's lots of voodoo BS in the audiophile world, but a break-in period, at least for some speaker, is not. I used to own a high-end home theater business and the different brands of speakers required different amounts of break-in before I did the calibration work. From zero to 20 or 30 hours, most required none, some required a little, and a couple of brands required a good deal. As time was $ and I was not the consumer, I wanted to finish & get out ASAP. And I guarantee ALL the speakers were tested at factory. Dramatically poor out of the box sound for those speakers that need break-in.

[Lee Rambler]

it is a fact that the mechanical properties of speakers changes (ie the suspension) after broken in- they loosen up. This is most apparent on woofers, and happens easiest with heavier travel (ie lower bass at higher levels). "Burn in" may not be the best term, but speakers definitely loosen up. Different drivers take different amounts of time, and this could be done at the factory prior to shipping, though most are not... on alot of subwoofer drivers you can feel the difference of just moving the cone with your hand a few times.

[chemgeek]

I don't really want to go on and on about this because I don't imagine the vendor thinks to highly of me right now.

Originally Posted by SVO

Skepticism is good, but know what you're talking about. There's lots of voodoo BS in the audiophile world, but a break-in period, at least for some speaker, is not. I used to own a high-end home theater business and the different brands of speakers required different amounts of break-in before I did the calibration work. From zero to 20 or 30 hours, most required none, some required a little, and a couple of brands required a good deal. As time was $ and I was not the consumer, I wanted to finish & get out ASAP. And I guarantee ALL the speakers were tested at factory. Dramatically poor out of the box sound for those speakers that need break-in.

Ok, I tend to agree with you regarding high end audio gear. If you have a nice set-up in a listening room or nice home theater you might arguably be able to hear a difference. But again, we are talking about the cabin of an e9x, not quite a quiet listening environment. Further, these are open air speakers, not ported or sealed cabinets. Further still, you are talking about 11 speakers for ~$630, that is anything but high end IMHO. I consider a nice set of Wilson Watt Puppies or B&W Nautilus high end.

Originally Posted by Lee Rambler

it is a fact that the mechanical properties of speakers changes (ie the suspension) after broken in- they loosen up. This is most apparent on woofers, and happens easiest with heavier travel (ie lower bass at higher levels). "Burn in" may not be the best term, but speakers definitely loosen up. Different drivers take different amounts of time, and this could be done at the factory prior to shipping, though most are not... on alot of subwoofer drivers you can feel the difference of just moving the cone with your hand a few times.

Yeah, subs I would agree as the materials definitely "stretch" on high excursion and the pressures in a sealed or ported enclosure are sometimes rediculous. But, woofers are getting off point. We are talking about 4" midranges and tweeters.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by chemgeek

I don't really want to go on and on about this because I don't imagine the vendor thinks to highly of me right now.

Ok, I tend to agree with you regarding high end audio gear. If you have a nice set-up in a listening room or nice home theater you might arguably be able to hear a difference. But again, we are talking about the cabin of an e9x, not quite a quiet listening environment. Further, these are open air speakers, not ported or sealed cabinets. Further still, you are talking about 11 speakers for ~$630, that is anything but high end IMHO. I consider a nice set of Wilson Watt Puppies or B&W Nautilus high end.

Yeah, subs I would agree as the materials definitely "stretch" on high excursion and the pressures in a sealed or ported enclosure are sometimes rediculous. But, woofers are getting off point. We are talking about 4" midranges and tweeters.

We have nothing to hide here. Our products are backed with a 30 day guarantee and if people aren't happy, we encourage them to return the products for a full refund, shipping costs excluded.

However, because OUR products DO require a break-in period (others may not) we ask that they give them time. The fact is, they do sound much better than stock right out of the box, but in cases where the customer isn't happy right away it's important they understand that the sound changes over time.

As I find myself saying over and over again, please reserve judgment unless you have personal experience with our products. Until you have PERSONALLY experienced our products you have no business claiming anything about them.

[IllLojik]

Wow, I've been following this for a while now and must say.. **shit just got real**

I have to agree that until anyone has heard these personally, it's pretty ignorant to bash.
The vendor has said time and time again that these are simply a solution for those willing to replace the stock components and leave everything else AS IS. Now, one can quote options left and right about adding processors, amps, etc, etc. Yes that will most produce more controllable results, but that's not what's being sold here. Just speakers that are supposed to sound a lot better than stock while saving the buyer some time, customization and perhaps a few dollars. If you want to build a better system, by all means, go do so. Be constructive and start another thread about said ideas.


I myself just ordered the Logic 7 set this evening and will be awaiting it's arrival. I'm no hard-core audiophile, but I do enjoy quality. I'll have a couple different people who have rode with me listen to the stock L7 setup. Do the install and have them check out the new setup. This way I can have a couple different opinions. (or I'll borrow my neighbor's car who has the same L7 setup... hmmm) I'll definitely update on my findings.

Oh yeah.. you guys can continue the entertaining cockfight.

[ProfessorCook]

Geez, Ill.... this sort of rational, reasoned response is a bit out of place here, lol.