[STR8-6IX]

reading through the posts on this forum, I am noticing an alarming amount of people following the BMW oil change interval which is like 15,000Miles. is no one concerned about the life of their engine, or the fact this is 3x what the interval should be? I usually do 5000 mile oil intervals and the oil is already quite dirty. on top of this, lots of people are posting threads complaining of a rough idle upon cold start which goes away when the engine is warmed. i guarantee if those people changed their oil every 5000 miles, they would not have this problem. there are people over on the f30 forum with completely failed engined (general low oil pressure problem - due to infrequent oil changes) such as stretched timing chains, oil pump issues, etc.
what do you guys think? how many of you actually change your oil when you are supposed to?
curious to hear what you all think.

[patents]

It's possible for the oil life monitor to indicate an oil change at 15k miles, but I would think for most people, based on driving habits, it indicates a change sooner than that. Also, you are supposed to change your oil once a year regardless. I drive so few miles (about 4k a year), I have yet to see my oil life monitor go off before a change.

It is a touchy subject, for some reason people get all hyped up and argue with each other when it comes to oil change intervals. I don't know why people get so emotional about it. It really is about science, statistics, and probability.

Here is my take: Until someone proves to me that BMW's recommended intervals are inadequate, I am going to assume the manufacturer of my engine knows best. In my opinion, I do not see a benefit of changing the oil sooner, and I view it as a waste of oil, time, and money.

What it comes down to, is that many people just don't see any benefit of changing oil sooner. Nearly all the arguments for changing oil sooner are because "it just seems too long," or "surely oil can't last that long," or things like that, which means nothing. If you really want to convince people to change their oil sooner, you need to provide documentation of an early engine failure due to infrequent oil changes when there is proof that BMW's oil change schedule was followed.

This discussion happens on every forum for every car make out there. There are people who think 5k miles is way too much on an oil change - 3k or bust. And nearly all of those people change their oil too soon because it just "feels" right to do so.

Every Blackstone oil analysis of oil changed at BMW's intervals that I've come across all indicate the oil was still ok.

I'll throw this back to you for discussion: What evidence do you have that 5k is what the interval "should" be? Why 5k instead of, say, 4k or 6k? You say it's because the oil looks dirty, is that confirmed by an oil analysis, or just the way it looks? Does it look any different at 6k, or 8k?

[123Britt]

Now that years of data has been compiled and well documented intake valve issues have been witnessed on the N54 ICON -- 5k OCI intervals are recommended with Low NOACK oils, regular hard runs to really heat thing up are another proven method for reducing DI Intake build-up.

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It is not that the oil can't last that long but that it gets dirty and due to the inherent PCV flaws of the N54 -- grp IV / V oils are recommended.
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This was a summary of Mike Miller's response to a reader in Bimmer Mag regarding N54 DI Intake Valve walnut blasting.
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He recommends RL 5W-30 in the N54. Not as much of an issue on the N55 with its improved PCV system however, I have read that the new B58 does have oil control issues that warrants an oil catch can (which BMS is developing) like they did for the N54 and early N55.
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SO - do I follow 5K OCI -- yes but with PP Euro 5W-40 while in warranty.
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Cheers

[Efthreeoh]

I think all of what you said is a bunch of crap, especially the part about "stretched timing belts" - LOL. My N52 just passed 315,000 miles on 22 Oil changes following BMW's CBS OCI. Some intervals went past 17,500 miles. All changes with BMW 5W-30 and OE filters. I've been all through the engine; oil pan off, valve cover off, and peeped into the VANOS solenoid openings not a spec of sludge anywhere (I've posted pics on the forum several times if you care to look). Engine sees redline everyday and the car gets hammered on the back roads where I live. And every morning on a cold engine the car drives up over a mountain 1 mile from my house that is an 11-turn corkscrew that goes up about 700 feet in just under 1 mile.

I've been on this Forum over 10 years and I can't recall an engine failure by anyone from a failed oil pump, let alone anyone having an engine failure due to an oil issue. And no one has suffered a stretched timing belt; timing belts NEVER fail in these engines, NEVER.

[Wolf 335]

OP are you actually referring to Miles or Kilometers in your post?

That 5000 km interval stuck around from before synthetic oils came into the scene.

Synthetic oil can outlast 10,000km without any problems and still provide protection the engine needs.

So changing it under 10,000km is simply a waste of your money and oil.

This is not your Daddy's 1989 Ford Taurus and this is not your standard oil.

It amazes me how much shit people change on their cars that doesn't even need changing just because they read up that someone on forum is doing it.

You want to change your synthetic oil every 5000km go right ahead. While you're at it, change your tires at 5000km along with all other pulleys and gaskets. Might as well right, it feels like the right thing to do.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think all of what you said is a bunch of crap, especially the part about "stretched timing belts" - LOL. My N52 just passed 315,000 miles on 22 Oil changes following BMW's CBS OCI. Some intervals went past 17,500 miles. All changes with BMW 5W-30 and OE filters. I've been all through the engine; oil pan off, valve cover off, and peeped into the VANOS solenoid openings not a spec of sludge anywhere (I've posted pics on the forum several times if you care to look). Engine sees redline everyday and the car gets hammered on the back roads where I live. And every morning on a cold engine the car drives up over a mountain 1 mile from my house that is an 11-turn corkscrew that goes up about 700 feet in just under 1 mile.

I've been on this Forum over 10 years and I can't recall an engine failure by anyone from a failed oil pump, let alone anyone having an engine failure due to an oil issue. And no one has suffered a stretched timing belt; timing belts NEVER fail in these engines, NEVER.

Don't these engines have timing chains as opposed to belts? At least that's what I thought. I might be wrong, new to BMWs.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Wolf 335

OP are you actually referring to Miles or Kilometers in your post?

That 5000 km interval stuck around from before synthetic oils came into the scene.

Synthetic oil can outlast 10,000km without any problems and still provide protection the engine needs.

So changing it under 10,000km is simply a waste of your money and oil.

This is not your Daddy's 1989 Ford Taurus and this is not your standard oil.

It amazes me how much shit people change on their cars that doesn't even need changing just because they read up that someone on forum is doing it.

You want to change your synthetic oil every 5000km go right ahead. While you're at it, change your tires at 5000km along with all other pulleys and gaskets. Might as well right, it feels like the right thing to do.

I meant 5000 miles. 5000KM intervals is silly. I never change my oil past 5000 miles.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

Don't these engines have timing chains as opposed to belts? At least that's what I thought. I might be wrong, new to BMWs.

You are correct. I was being sarcastic. The only BMW production car inline 6 to use a timing belt was the M20.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by patents

It's possible for the oil life monitor to indicate an oil change at 15k miles, but I would think for most people, based on driving habits, it indicates a change sooner than that. Also, you are supposed to change your oil once a year regardless. I drive so few miles (about 4k a year), I have yet to see my oil life monitor go off before a change.

It is a touchy subject, for some reason people get all hyped up and argue with each other when it comes to oil change intervals. I don't know why people get so emotional about it. It really is about science, statistics, and probability.

Here is my take: Until someone proves to me that BMW's recommended intervals are inadequate, I am going to assume the manufacturer of my engine knows best. In my opinion, I do not see a benefit of changing the oil sooner, and I view it as a waste of oil, time, and money.

What it comes down to, is that many people just don't see any benefit of changing oil sooner. Nearly all the arguments for changing oil sooner are because "it just seems too long," or "surely oil can't last that long," or things like that, which means nothing. If you really want to convince people to change their oil sooner, you need to provide documentation of an early engine failure due to infrequent oil changes when there is proof that BMW's oil change schedule was followed.

This discussion happens on every forum for every car make out there. There are people who think 5k miles is way too much on an oil change - 3k or bust. And nearly all of those people change their oil too soon because it just "feels" right to do so.

Every Blackstone oil analysis of oil changed at BMW's intervals that I've come across all indicate the oil was still ok.

I'll throw this back to you for discussion: What evidence do you have that 5k is what the interval "should" be? Why 5k instead of, say, 4k or 6k? You say it's because the oil looks dirty, is that confirmed by an oil analysis, or just the way it looks? Does it look any different at 6k, or 8k?

you change your oil every 4000 miles, but say the 15000 mile interval is fine? in what world does going 15000 miles on an oil change sound fine? i dont understand..

[floydarogers]

This paper http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/ tells you why you shouldn't change at 5K intervals. You're wearing out your engine faster by doing so.

OP, your post showed a low knowledge level, beginning with "stretched timing belts", since BMWs haven't had belts in 25 years. Pretty much all the real literature (on SAE and other websites) says: use the manufacturers' recommendations, because they actually did the oil analyses on new engines to decide on a median recommendation. They take samples for analysis over several hundred thousand miles, yet you seem to believe "something you saw" or "something your mechanic said"? Have you been following the "fake news" stories lately? Do some research rather than believing the first article you see.

[patents]

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

you change your oil every 4000 miles, but say the 15000 mile interval is fine?

BMW recommends changing oil when the oil life monitor indicates OR after one year, whichever comes first. Since I only drive about 4k per year, I change it once a year.

Originally Posted by 6IX-F10-N52

in what world does going 15000 miles on an oil change sound fine? i dont understand..

The world called Earth in the year 2016.

My 1990 Honda Accord's owners manual recommended 7,500 mile oil change intervals. That was 26 years ago and using non-synthetic oil.

You haven't given any reason that a 15k oil change interval is inadequate other than it just doesn't sound right, or seems too long, or should be shorter.

Why should I change my oil based on your feelings? I don't even know you.

The point of my post above is that I'm not going to believe someone who tells me the BMW recommended oil change interval is inadequate simply because they "think" it's too long, or it doesn't "feel" right, or they believe oil "surely" can't last that long, etc. None of that means anything. I want proof that oil needs to be changed sooner. Show me oil analysis reports. Show me pictures of engine sludge along with service receipts.

Engineers can design an engine and oil system to prolong the life of oil. The size of oil passages, filter area and media, volume of oil, type of oil, etc. all can affect oil life. Cars 50 years ago could go 5k between oil changes. Don't you think technology has changed enough since then to allow for longer intervals?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by patents

BMW recommends changing oil when the oil life monitor indicates OR after one year, whichever comes first. Since I only drive about 4k per year, I change it once a year.



The world called Earth in the year 2016.

My 1990 Honda Accord's owners manual recommended 7,500 mile oil change intervals. That was 26 years ago and using non-synthetic oil.

You haven't given any reason that a 15k oil change interval is inadequate other than it just doesn't sound right, or seems too long, or should be shorter.

Why should I change my oil based on your feelings? I don't even know you.

The point of my post above is that I'm not going to believe someone who tells me the BMW recommended oil change interval is inadequate simply because they "think" it's too long, or it doesn't "feel" right, or they believe oil "surely" can't last that long, etc. None of that means anything. I want proof that oil needs to be changed sooner. Show me oil analysis reports. Show me pictures of engine sludge along with service receipts.

Engineers can design an engine and oil system to prolong the life of oil. The size of oil passages, filter area and media, volume of oil, type of oil, etc. all can affect oil life. Cars 50 years ago could go 5k between oil changes. Don't you think technology has changed enough since then to allow for longer intervals?

I think it is fair to say I've sorta proved BMW's CBS OCI maintenance plan works.

OP, 5K OCI is a waste of money and resources.

[PA66400]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think all of what you said is a bunch of crap, especially the part about "stretched timing belts" - LOL. My N52 just passed 315,000 miles on 22 Oil changes following BMW's CBS OCI. Some intervals went past 17,500 miles. All changes with BMW 5W-30 and OE filters. I've been all through the engine; oil pan off, valve cover off, and peeped into the VANOS solenoid openings not a spec of sludge anywhere (I've posted pics on the forum several times if you care to look). Engine sees redline everyday and the car gets hammered on the back roads where I live. And every morning on a cold engine the car drives up over a mountain 1 mile from my house that is an 11-turn corkscrew that goes up about 700 feet in just under 1 mile.

I've been on this Forum over 10 years and I can't recall an engine failure by anyone from a failed oil pump, let alone anyone having an engine failure due to an oil issue. And no one has suffered a stretched timing belt; timing belts NEVER fail in these engines, NEVER.

The most important point of any is made in the post quoted above. That is, there has not been any reported failure(s) of an engine that are related to lubrication, when the CBS interval is followed. I have a 2008 N54 with >130,000 miles (225,000 kms). I have followed the CBS interval from day 1. I have intake valve coking, but it is not related to my OCI; it is the DI engine design and the poorly designed PCV system on the N54. My engine uses almost no oil in-between changes. Too frequent changes are a waste of money and resources, in my experience.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think it is fair to say I've sorta proved BMW's CBS OCI maintenance plan works.

OP, 5K OCI is a waste of money and resources.

You're not the only proof.

It's interesting to note the approbation that several/many of us have given to this point of view. 15 years ago at the beginning of the BMW LL-01 synthetic oil required for BMWs, this would not have happened, many being utterly convinced that 3K intervals were the only "rational" choice.

Much evidence has been collected in those 15 years, much new thinking has occurred, and many minds have been changed. BMW didn't set their intervals on no data (note that the nominal interval for my diesel 335d is 13K, not 15K as the gas engines were). I've actually run oil analyses (via Blackstone), and that 13K number looks ok. There is no reason whatever to change it before then, and most of us dieselheads are in agreement on that conclusion (see the sticky in the diesel subforum.)

[123Britt]

OCI on the diesel at 13k does sounds about right -- I follow MB 10k OCI on the ML Bluetec and also think non-DI / non-turbo BMW gasoline engines can easily go 10k on quality spec oil. Certain engines like the N54 are different and in order to combat valve deposits OCI of 5K with low NOACK and low SAP does help. The N55 is improved but as an oil freak -- I follow 5k OCI with GTL Pennzoil EURO while in warranty (5W-40) but will be switching to RL 5W-30 post 50k miles.
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It all make the world go round -- just my reasons for my actions.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

You're not the only proof.

It's interesting to note the approbation that several/many of us have given to this point of view. 15 years ago at the beginning of the BMW LL-01 synthetic oil required for BMWs, this would not have happened, many being utterly convinced that 3K intervals were the only "rational" choice.

Much evidence has been collected in those 15 years, much new thinking has occurred, and many minds have been changed. BMW didn't set their intervals on no data (note that the nominal interval for my diesel 335d is 13K, not 15K as the gas engines were). I've actually run oil analyses (via Blackstone), and that 13K number looks ok. There is no reason whatever to change it before then, and most of us dieselheads are in agreement on that conclusion (see the sticky in the diesel subforum.)

Back in the day my Dad had a Olds 98 Regency diesel. Huge car and got 30 MPG. It had a 30 gallon gas tank, so you could drive it 900 miles between fill ups. I helped him drive back from LA to Maryland in 1985, we filled up just three times .

But God did I hate changing the oil in that thing. The oil was so dirty it would stain your hands black like ink.