09-02-2010, 10:46 AM | #67 |
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S54.497706 4 cats, 2 turbos, N55 head, M1 SW and some "is" parts.
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09-03-2010, 11:45 AM | #68 |
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I will rather think they will take the complete fuel system from the N55 for sure (more rail pressure and for sure better injector) for the hybrid part.
After they may do some change on the exhaust system (like a two new manifold) and possibly some new turbocharger with the VNT system (same as Porsche). And for sure the engine name will be branded with a S but for sure not a carry over of the performance pack (they still need to keep the M identity) Just my 2 cents (of euros ...) |
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09-04-2010, 06:23 PM | #69 | ||
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09-04-2010, 06:34 PM | #70 |
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Just did a quick search - it housing only have one waste gate. Anything beyond that it's too complex for my little brain . Someone else who have better technical knowledge than my limited knowledge can tell me why it won't work rather than just "it needs to be divided in pairs". .
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09-04-2010, 10:45 PM | #71 | |
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I can't think of any other engine that would qualify as "hybrid" using the old-school definition. His statement seems to suggest more than N54 with bigger snails. Better N53 (DI version of N52)? I imagine they could milk 350hp out of that engine quite easily. It also weights nearly 80lbs less than the N54. They could realistically get more than 400hp out of it with a 8000 rpm redline.
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09-05-2010, 06:00 AM | #72 | |
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09-05-2010, 07:07 AM | #73 |
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Well let's assume BMW do use the N54.
What i think is that BMW are unlikely to make it much faster than the current M3. What do we know about BMW N54 tunes currently? There is the standard 300HP tune, the 335is 320HP tune and...well this would limit them to around 340HP/250kw as per Z4 35is N54 level of tune which is as fast as a manual M3 already. Considering the M1 will be lighter but with a manual instead of the slighter quicker DCT, it puts it in about the ballpark. They may even take it to around 350HP but I don't see them going much more than that as they have to maintain model distinction. I think it would be simple and efficient for BMW to implement this. A car that does 0-60 in around 4.7 sec, great handling, 2 door, relatively lightweight. Easy. 1M problem solved. |
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09-05-2010, 11:43 AM | #74 | |
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furthermore, a twin scroll turbo is designed to be more efficient than a traditional turbo. if you're getting eratic boost response from uneven cylinder pairing, how is that more efficient? it's not. i don't really know why some mis-informed members on this website are hoping for a dual twin scroll setup. it's ricer talk and reminds me of people wanting "titanium valve springs" after the fast and furious came out. |
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09-05-2010, 12:24 PM | #75 | |
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My $.02 based on Scott's "hybrid" remarks are that this will be the well-established N54 engine with an N55 turbo setup (i.e. a single twin-scroll turbo) modified to suit an M car's required characteristics. Date it. I'll be back to collect my prize if I win. ;-)
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09-05-2010, 12:34 PM | #76 | ||
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09-05-2010, 12:49 PM | #77 | ||
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in regards to mid cats signifying twin or single turbo's, i don't think that's accurate or based on facts. yes, the n54 uses mid cats and the n55 doesn't, but that doesn't mean bmw will only use mid cat's on a twin turbo. perhaps there's a better downpipe/primary cat in place (when compared with the n55) so bmw deemed secondary cat's necessary. it makes sense for the m division to use a more efficient downpipe design than the n55, if the 1 series m coupe is in fact an n54 w/ a single turbo. Quote:
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09-05-2010, 02:12 PM | #78 | |
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Best regards, south
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09-05-2010, 03:37 PM | #79 | |
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09-06-2010, 12:57 AM | #80 | |
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Your second argument is based on your first premise so... really the critical part is why it will have eratic boost. May be someone else can chip in so we can kill this topic once and for all.
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09-06-2010, 09:41 AM | #81 | |
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09-06-2010, 11:36 AM | #82 | |
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Twin scroll turbine housing. The TST housing derives its name from the geometry of the exhaust gas inlet into the turbine. Two different-sized scrolls are generally used, a primary and a secondary. Typically, the primary is open for low-speed operation, and both for high-speed use. This creates the ability of the TST to be a small A/R housing at low speeds and a large A/R at higher speeds. TST designs are of merit in that they offer a better combination of low-speed response and high-end power. It would be difficult to configure the unit to control boost by effectively varying A/R. A wastegate is therefore still necessary to control boost pressure. Simplicity of the twin scroll turbine housing is its big selling point. in my opinion ,predoinantly twin scroll housing is used n diesel turbocharging systems on the engines having more than 4 cylinders to reduce pulsasation of these engines . Additonaly , output of some cyliders will go one scroll and remaining in other to cut down pulsastations |
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09-06-2010, 08:49 PM | #83 | |
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ok so we "time" these pulses right? "time"? how do you "time" it without slowing down the exhaust gas velocity which is vital to spool? custom tubular manifolds have LAG for this very reason. at high rpm its great due to better flow but its lower velocity hurts spool. im no engineer, but the simple fact that you cant divide 3 into 2 is very important. you will have to design a very complicated system that in the end probably wont be worth the trouble... |
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09-07-2010, 12:44 AM | #84 |
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The terminology causes the problems with everyones ideas. You can have a "twin Scroll" on an inline 6 and it should work quiet well. I have explained one way twice and read the threads and PM me with questions. I do not think they will do that though. It could be like some of their deisel projects where they use a small turbo(even it could be a twin scroll) in 3 cylinders and a larger(it could be a larger twin scroll too on the other 3. Before you say it will be imbalaced it can have a passover connection to equalise the pressure. I wish I knew how to put a sketch to these ideas so we could all see this.
There are at least 2 ways to skin a twin turbo, twin scroll design on an inline 6 that I know of if they want to do it. I am sure M can come up with even more. Most might be complicated and/or expensive so I am doubtful we will get one. My best hope is they apply the intake system off of the next M3 that is intended for the N55 but use it on a N54. |
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09-07-2010, 06:48 AM | #85 |
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Why not the tri-turbo design from the new diesel? Oh, and this could be your "hybrid" that Scott mentioned.......
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09-07-2010, 07:42 AM | #86 |
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Some have presented quite good ideas...for the coming M3 engine.
As to the 1M, I still don't expect any significant changes to its engine. It will be an N54, maybe with a different oil cooler or different pistons, but the bi-turbo layout is there to stay. Best regards, south
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09-07-2010, 08:16 AM | #87 | ||
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The way I see it is that having two pulse on one scroll is definitely better that three on one scroll. If you look at firing sequence 1 2 3 4 5 6 (not cylinders), where Turbo A connects to 1 3 5 and Turbo B connects to 2 4 6; Scroll A1 connects to 1, 5, and A2 connects to 3, Scroll B1 connects to 2, 6 and B2 connects to 4. The volume and pulses feed to the charger is the same - 3 by volume of air, and they would be evenly spaced out regardless of the uneven scrolls as the two scrolls feeds to one charger. The continuous feeding of the charger should create the back pressure require on the two scrolls, while the separation of the two cylinders on one scroll and the isolation of the one cylinder on the other should reduce interference. Timing, as far as I know is done by the size and length of the runners in the manifold - CCM is the latest BMW technology. As the key to this set up is in the manifold, I believe BMW, who is renowned for this would be able to come up with a solution. I am no engineer but that's why I can't see why it is a problem, and of course due to my limited knowledge and understanding. However, I think I am guilty of getting this OT. Let's go back to the N54. Quote:
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09-07-2010, 08:29 AM | #88 | |
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