[ismelllikepoop]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

We had a one week development session in our San Diego area facility. One of the vehicles was a 1 series, and one was a 3 series. Both people received a Stage 1 kit at no cost in exchange for access to their vehicle and posting an unbiased review of how they think the product sounds. They are not paid or compensated in any way except the product they received.

I'm consistently blown away by how cynical some folks are. Is it REALLY that hard to believe that someone makes a good product and people just love the way it sounds? Especially when that company backs the products with a 100% guarantee and there are literally THOUSANDS of happy customers? Oh well, some people just never believe anything...

i like hearing ppl's reviews on various products, but when you fail to mention that you received the product FREE in exchange for a "REVIEW" posted online, that smacks of deception. I'm sure the product does sound good, but i would be less cynical if the poster was upfront about it. I don't know what constitutes paid but getting a $629 product in exchange for a review does sound like it.

[vampie]

I just finished partially installing the BSW kit (I still have to do the 4 rear side speakers).

OMG night and day difference. No more crazy EQ settings since it sounds better flat now, although I do prefer +2 on the bass. I also prefer the sound stage with Logic 7 Music turned on (I have the non-IDrive dash).

I'm playing 320k mp3's off a thumb drive and everything sounds amazing. The only thing I can compare it to are my reference Alesis studio monitors. The harshness is gone and the clarity is amazing, to the point that I could hear breathing in tracks I never noticed before.

Tomorrow I'll finish the install and see if it can get any better than it already is. A+ job guys, awesome kit.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by ismelllikepoop

i like hearing ppl's reviews on various products, but when you fail to mention that you received the product FREE in exchange for a "REVIEW" posted online, that smacks of deception. I'm sure the product does sound good, but i would be less cynical if the poster was upfront about it. I don't know what constitutes paid but getting a $629 product in exchange for a review does sound like it.

Let me clarify. The MAIN purpose was to do a final fitment confirmation and record video in the vehicle. The customer found us from this thread:

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9&goto=newpost

After we installed the product, we POLITELY asked for a review if the customer didn't mind. It was not an up-front condition for receiving product. The customer gladly did so because he was pleased with the results as is virtually everyone who hears the kit.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by vampie

I just finished partially installing the BSW kit (I still have to do the 4 rear side speakers).

OMG night and day difference. No more crazy EQ settings since it sounds better flat now, although I do prefer +2 on the bass. I also prefer the sound stage with Logic 7 Music turned on (I have the non-IDrive dash).

I'm playing 320k mp3's off a thumb drive and everything sounds amazing. The only thing I can compare it to are my reference Alesis studio monitors. The harshness is gone and the clarity is amazing, to the point that I could hear breathing in tracks I never noticed before.

Tomorrow I'll finish the install and see if it can get any better than it already is. A+ job guys, awesome kit.

Just wait till all of 'em are installed and they break in. They're gonna blow your mind.

Mind if I throw your review up on our site?

[vampie]

Go ahead! Thanks Micah.

[to_riffic]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Let me clarify. The MAIN purpose was to do a final fitment confirmation and record video in the vehicle. The customer found us from this thread:

http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9&goto=newpost

After we installed the product, we POLITELY asked for a review if the customer didn't mind. It was not an up-front condition for receiving product. The customer gladly did so because he was pleased with the results as is virtually everyone who hears the kit.

I normally don't write reviews, but this product surpassed my expectations from the get-go. Unfortunately with my car going through the process of being lemoned, I will have to give it back up to Jason.

It was really great while it lasted...

[vampie]

I finished my install last night. Everything went perfect and it sounds awesome.

One word of advise, order the sound deadening material. When you see the difference between the stock door speaker and the BSW, you'll understand the need for it. It also helped lower road noise and made the doors feel more solid.

[my07_335i]

600$ is alot for some tiny speakers.... are these on the level with MB quartz? I'm interested in a plug and play solution to upgrade my factory L7 speakers though, any chance of getting half off if I go rave about your product on every board under the sun? I'll even slap some window stickers on my car j/k


I may pick a set up, wish I could hear some locally though....

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by my07_335i

600$ is alot for some tiny speakers.... are these on the level with MB quartz? I'm interested in a plug and play solution to upgrade my factory L7 speakers though, any chance of getting half off if I go rave about your product on every board under the sun? I'll even slap some window stickers on my car j/k


I may pick a set up, wish I could hear some locally though....

It's really not when you consider that they are custom manufactured for your exact vehicle model and optimized to sound fantastic in YOUR car. Or that they use the construction style and design of much more expensive speakers. Or that they come with a 4 year warranty and 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

As for a comparison between our products and other aftermarket speakers, it's impossible to do so. That's because they are fundamentally different components designed for different purposes. Our speaker system is like a new suspension and vehicle body designed to maximize the performance of the engine (amplifier) of your current vehicle and its limitations, while aftermarket speaker sets are like an entirely new suspension and body designed for an engine (amplifier) of your choice. It's an apples to oranges comparison because the purpose of the equipment is different.

What I can tell you is that unless you go with an entirely aftermarket configuration and rewire your vehicle, custom fit new speakers, and rebuild from the ground up, our Stage 1 is going to outperform any other speakers you use by a significant margin because they are optimized for your exact vehicle and its audio system. The quality of the components is also extremely high end, using materials and construction typically found in $500+ per pair speaker sets, and you're getting two pairs + 3 extra speakers. The value is unbeatable, in our opinion.

Why is our stuff less expensive relative to overall quality? Because you aren't paying for a distribution network, an expensive retail store, and multi-million dollar advertising campaigns.

As for your offer, we'll think about it. :P Even if you can't hear 'em locally, you can try them for 30 days and if you aren't totally happy, send them back for a full refund:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/ourguarantee.php

[Sirrus]

Hi Micah,

I have to say the availability of a guaranteed drop-in replacement speaker set has got my attention. It seems that your target audience is people who are not planning to replace their amplifier. What information can you give those of us who are planning to replace the amplifier? Specific things I can think of that would be beneficial are specs for each speaker (resistance, frequency response, power handling, efficiency, etc) and frequency response graphs. That way we can compare your solution against the other aftermarket options.

I don't necessarily want to replace the back speakers, but if I can get 8 speakers that are guaranteed to drop-in for the price of 4 comparable fronts that will almost fit, then it's a no brainer.

Thanks!

[mineo77]

seriously...you guys did the same cheese ball post on 1addicts. my 2 cents.

[my07_335i]

Micah,

I was half joking about the cost, because I've done complete speaker swaps in my previous cars, and know that good sound can cost a quite a bit of coin if you do it right. I guess what my concern is though is that I'm used to actual name brand brands, like MB quartz, have heard what they sound like, and can appreciate the quality.

You'll have to forgive me as I've just recently entered the BMW family, so I'm not familiar with all the tuning options out there and what's hot/not. I don't doubt your claims and some of the reviews, but what it boils down to for me I suppose is this: I'm not going to dick with my BMW the way I used to for my honda vehicles. I want to do things the right way, the first time.

If I grab a set of these, I have a few questions. Assuming I upgrade to your speakers, how will this affect my upgrade path later on? will your speakers still be "the best" if say a year from now I decide to go with an after market amp and maybe a sub? I don't want to buy a solution today that fits with my current system, but later on down the line does not work as harmoniously with future audio plans. while your product may be tuned for the stock L7 system, will it sound just as good with something else later?


Also, I noticed that after i selected "Logic7" as an option for the speakers, it was an additional 100 something dollars. Can you tell me why "logic7" speakers are so much extra? aren't speakers.....speakers? it's not like there are fiber optic lines going to each speaker.

[Sirrus]

I believe when you pick Logic 7 you are getting 3 extra speakers vs HiFi (center channel and rear deck).

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by my07_335i

Micah,

I was half joking about the cost, because I've done complete speaker swaps in my previous cars, and know that good sound can cost a quite a bit of coin if you do it right. I guess what my concern is though is that I'm used to actual name brand brands, like MB quartz, have heard what they sound like, and can appreciate the quality.

We've been around for 5 years now, and while we don't have a brand known outside of BMWs, we do have a reputation for quality in the BMW world. Also, our drivers are MADE by manufacturers whose products you'd recognize (and lust after) -- but we don't share who makes them since it undermines our own brand.

You'll have to forgive me as I've just recently entered the BMW family, so I'm not familiar with all the tuning options out there and what's hot/not. I don't doubt your claims and some of the reviews, but what it boils down to for me I suppose is this: I'm not going to dick with my BMW the way I used to for my honda vehicles. I want to do things the right way, the first time.

That's exactly the POINT of our drivers -- they're made for your BMW, so they're a perfect match, every time. And they are completely reversible -- no modifications to the car whatsoever.

If I grab a set of these, I have a few questions. Assuming I upgrade to your speakers, how will this affect my upgrade path later on? will your speakers still be "the best" if say a year from now I decide to go with an after market amp and maybe a sub? I don't want to buy a solution today that fits with my current system, but later on down the line does not work as harmoniously with future audio plans. while your product may be tuned for the stock L7 system, will it sound just as good with something else later?

Our Stage 1 Audio Upgrade is designed from the ground up to work with the factory amplifier, power output, etc. While it is definitely possible to install an aftermarket amplifier that would be compatible with our Stage 1, it is not something we would be able to provide information on or support in any way.

As for performance, it's going to depend on the configuration you use and how you tune it, but many users have had great results using our drivers with aftermarket amps.

In addition, we do have future plans for an amplifier upgrade for your chassis, but timelines are not set in stone so they may not be available if and when you're ready to upgrade.

However, as I mentioned before, our speakers require no modification, so there's no reason you couldn't TRY them with an amp of your choice (don't exceed 50w RMS) and see what you think. If you're not happy, sell them and put in something you prefer.

All that said, we've had A LOT of guys with Logic7 who thought they wanted an amp upgrade buy our Stage 1 and decide it wasn't necessary for them at all. Just something to think about...

Also, I noticed that after i selected "Logic7" as an option for the speakers, it was an additional 100 something dollars. Can you tell me why "logic7" speakers are so much extra? aren't speakers.....speakers? it's not like there are fiber optic lines going to each speaker.

You're receiving 3 extra speakers.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Sirrus

Hi Micah,

I have to say the availability of a guaranteed drop-in replacement speaker set has got my attention. It seems that your target audience is people who are not planning to replace their amplifier. What information can you give those of us who are planning to replace the amplifier? Specific things I can think of that would be beneficial are specs for each speaker (resistance, frequency response, power handling, efficiency, etc) and frequency response graphs. That way we can compare your solution against the other aftermarket options.

I don't necessarily want to replace the back speakers, but if I can get 8 speakers that are guaranteed to drop-in for the price of 4 comparable fronts that will almost fit, then it's a no brainer.

Thanks!

Here's the info I can give:

~2 Ohm Impedance
50W RMS power handling
60 - 20,000Hz Frequency response

I'm not able to share an FR curve or efficiency information at this time. However, FR is much flatter and smoother than stock, and efficiency is very high since these work on the stock amp.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by mineo77

seriously...you guys did the same cheese ball post on 1addicts. my 2 cents.

No, we did development over a week on multiple cars, and both customers received a kit in exchange for access to their cars and we REQUESTED they post an honest review after they told us how much they liked them.

This is REAL feedback from REAL users of the products. No, they didn't pay for the parts, but there was NO agreement that they had to post anything related to our products.

[Park828]

lol.. give bsw a break.. not like they're trying to sell you $1500 set of components...

They made.. Make a rear self mounted sub boxes that i bought about 4-5 years ago and it was of great quality and produces one of cleanest bass from my McIntosh subs... in my e36m. Been a stereo freak until this car.. didn't want to rip everything apart for a full system for this car.. idk why.

anyways.. have a question for the bsw guys.. i want to order a kit for my e90. so the full price seems to be 699? is this correct?

Park.

[Micah D. Cranman]

$699 with Logic7, $589.99 with HiFi.

Thanks for chiming in!

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Also, our drivers are MADE by manufacturers whose products you'd recognize (and lust after) -- but we don't share who makes them since it undermines our own brand.

So if you told us who made your branded speakers, we'd be impressed - but you can't tell us, because if you did, then we would think less of your brand?

I don't think that any of the speaker brands who actually own a factory and glue speakers together make your E90 speakers. I strongly believe that you have them assembled in a Pacific Rim contract manufacturer - maybe one who also makes speakers for brands we would know - but that's a far cry from being made by Scan-Speak, or Dynaudio, or Morel, or SEAS, or even Rainbow. I might be wrong... but I believe it strongly. There's nothing wrong with having speaker factories assemble speakers - that's what they do - but your "wink, wink, I could tell you who makes these for us, but then I'd have to kill you" is disingenuous and not worthy of your product.

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

That's exactly the POINT of our drivers -- they're made for your BMW, so they're a perfect match, every time. )

But they are more of a perfect match for Logic 7 cars than non-Logic 7 cars, if I understand correctly... and how well do they work for base audio deck-power 2010 US cars? Just want to understand all of the potential "time(s)" they can be perfect...

Interesting fun fact... was all over the news in December of last year...

From FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 16 CFR Part 255 (Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising) December 2009:

The Commission does not believe that all uses of new consumer-generated media to discuss product attributes or consumer experiences should be deemed “endorsements"...

Rather, in analyzing statements made via these new media, the fundamental question is whether, viewed objectively, the relationship between the advertiser and the speaker is such that the speaker’s statement can be considered “sponsored” by the advertiser and therefore an “advertising message.”

In other words, in disseminating positive statements about a product or service, is the speaker: (1) acting solely independently, in which case there is no endorsement, or (2) acting on behalf of the advertiser or its agent, such that the speaker’s statement is an “endorsement” that is part of an overall marketing campaign?

The facts and circumstances that will determine the answer to this question are extremely varied and cannot be fully enumerated here, but would include: ... whether the product or service in question was provided for free by the advertiser...

An advertiser’s lack of control over the specific statement made via these new forms of consumer-generated media would not automatically disqualify that statement from being deemed an “endorsement” within the meaning of the Guides.

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

So if you told us who made your branded speakers, we'd be impressed - but you can't tell us, because if you did, then we would think less of your brand?

No, of course not. But it would mean that the products we sell stop being "BSW" products despite the fact that it's BSW that determines the final quality of our parts based on design decisions we make -- and by who and how we have them made. And depending on the particular parts or speakers in question, they may be made by multiple companies. For example, our amplifier in our d110 subwoofer systems is made by one company, while the 4ch amp we are developing for PnP amp upgrades is made by another -- both, again, very well respected...

We are in the business of designing and selling BSW products that HAPPEN to be made for us by 3rd parties. My point is that the people making our products either ARE well recognized and very well respected or MAKE products for brands that are well recognized and well respected.

I don't think that any of the speaker brands who actually own a factory and glue speakers together make your E90 speakers. I strongly believe that you have them assembled in a Pacific Rim contract manufacturer - maybe one who also makes speakers for brands we would know - but that's a far cry from being made by Scan-Speak, or Dynaudio, or Morel, or SEAS, or even Rainbow. I might be wrong... but I believe it strongly. There's nothing wrong with having speaker factories assemble speakers - that's what they do - but your "wink, wink, I could tell you who makes these for us, but then I'd have to kill you" is disingenuous and not worthy of your product.

Very few companies actually make speakers in house. Even Morel has some of their products made in Asia. Just like Morel, our speakers are made by, yes, Pacific Rim manufacturers that make drivers for exceptional brands. My apologies if I was unclear.

But they are more of a perfect match for Logic 7 cars than non-Logic 7 cars, if I understand correctly... and how well do they work for base audio deck-power 2010 US cars? Just want to understand all of the potential "time(s)" they can be perfect...

Now we're getting into semantics. Nothing is ever a "perfect" match since it's an engineering impossibility. Both are a GREAT match. Logic7 moreso. We don't sell the product for the 2010+ Base Audio cars yet since we haven't completed testing. We'll let you know.

Interesting fun fact... was all over the news in December of last year...

From FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 16 CFR Part 255 (Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising) December 2009:

I guess technically this is an endorsement, then. Thanks for clarifying.

[JakeN5]

Just a crazy question: Does West Coast BSW work on other cars' audio system too, like Audi? I have a old B5 A4 that I'd like to upgrade from stock audio just a little, or is it not worth the expense?

[Micah D. Cranman]

At the moment, BSW provides products for BMW's only. Also, our West Coast location doesn't really "work on" cars -- it's just a location for product development, not installs on an ongoing basis.