CORRECT 1M Fluids List [Engine, Transmission, Differential]

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Goddamn it.

Does the Performance Center do car servicing? I'll gladly drive the 180 miles to Greer if they do!

(

They do not, not for customer cars anyway. Well to be precise if you are doing PDC and havent left yet then your car can be serviced there, once you leave that day then its no.

[sparoz]

Just my opinion on the transmission oil for our friends in Northern America. It is required to be changed everywhere else in the world and I would recommend you guys to change it even if you have to pay for it.

[Stratus650]

Arrived at the dealer for the 2000km service, the SA was surprised for such a short mileage service, and insisted that the only thing that requires replacement was the engine oil. Luckily I had a printout of the above SIB to show him, with additional info on the Trans fluid as well. with a big question mark on his head, he went inside the workshop to confirm with the head of service dept. He came back with a big smile and said: "Well, I guess you are right !"

Do we customers need to tell BMW how to maintain their cars ? imagine I am not on this forum and know nothing about all of this

engine and Diff replaced, however LT-5 was not in stock and had to be ordered. hopefully it arrives this week so i confirm that all fluids are changed

[Dackelone]

I thought I might as well post this info here too, since this IS the sticky. PyratOne's awesome diff fluid thread...

1M limited slip differential information
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1#post10976891

Ok guys... today I went to my BMW Zentrum and asked about the diff fluids for the 1M. Here is what I found out. The factory fill oil for the diff is Castrol SAF-XJ. NOT the +FM, just the regular SAF-XJ oil. This oil should be changed at the first service 2,000 kms or 1,200 miles on M cars and at every third oil change. The Castrol SAF-XJ+FM diff oil is spec'd for the M3 e90, e92, e93 and 1er M Coupe, aka e82 M Coupe, aka 1M.

You need three 500ml bottles to change the diff oil out. The diff holds aprox 1.2L

Castrol SAF-XJ+FM BMW part number: 83222282583 for one 500ml bottle. cost is 30 euros per bottle at my BMW Zentrum.

I asked about the Castrol SAF-XJ+FM diff oil. My dealer had never heard of this +FM stuff... but it is a good part number. The price of +FM is 30 euros per 500ml bottle. Even though my dealer never heard of +FM fluid... the above TSB states to use it durring servicing. Its a little strange since they say they always just use (regular) Castrol SAF-XJ (w/o +FM) when they service M cars. In fact that is all they stock on hand.


I have scan'd the service document(that I got today) for you 1M guys. At the bottom of the first page BMW AG also lists other diff oils that you can use in place of Castrol SAF-XJ+FM.


hinterachsgetriebe öl = rear differential gear oil









SAF-XJ +FM (plus Friction Modifier) some fotos I found on the net of +FM...

[flzrider]

So is there any reason not to use the FM diff. fluid at the 1200 mile service? It seems like the service bulletin states pretty clearly that the new operating procedure is to use the FM fluid. I just find it strange that they would use non-FM fluid at the factory but then require the FM fluid immediately after.

And, as always, Dackel comes through with tons of helpful info.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by flzrider

So is there any reason not to use the FM diff. fluid at the 1200 mile service? It seems like the service bulletin states pretty clearly that the new operating procedure is to use the FM fluid. I just find it strange that they would use non-FM fluid at the factory but then require the FM fluid immediately after.

And, as always, Dackel comes through with tons of helpful info.

I'm under the impression that the +FM is used if there is noise coming from the diff, and that once you put FM in there you can't go back to non-FM. My bias would be to just go with non-FM unless I hear bothersome noise. I'd be curious to hear what people think?

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by ayao

I'm under the impression that the +FM is used if there is noise coming from the diff, and that once you put FM in there you can't go back to non-FM. My bias would be to just go with non-FM unless I hear bothersome noise. I'd be curious to hear what people think?

+1 exactly my thinking.

I would think adding a friction modifier changes the way the diff works, I prefer for it to work as fully intended. I will re-evaluate based on noise as the miles come. You can always go to +FM but you cant ever go back, right?

[flzrider]

Originally Posted by ayao

I'm under the impression that the +FM is used if there is noise coming from the diff, and that once you put FM in there you can't go back to non-FM. My bias would be to just go with non-FM unless I hear bothersome noise. I'd be curious to hear what people think?

I understand your reasoning, but doesn't it conflict with the service bulletin below?

As I understand it, BMW used to use the FM fluid only as needed, but now it is the standard fluid.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by flzrider

I understand your reasoning, but doesn't it conflict with the service bulletin below?

As I understand it, BMW used to use the FM fluid only as needed, but now it is the standard fluid.

The question is why?

Is it because its easier to stock and use one to prevent mix ups?

Maybe just use the +FM to avoid customer complaints and perceptions that something is broken due to the grinding sounds?

Or is there a mechanical reason?

[flzrider]

Originally Posted by Papethova

The question is why?

Is it because its easier to stock and use one to prevent mix ups?

Maybe just use the +FM to avoid customer complaints and perceptions that something is broken due to the grinding sounds?

Or is there a mechanical reason?

Exactly my point. Since we are not sure on the answer to those questions shouldn't we err on the side of the service bulletin?

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by flzrider

Exactly my point. Since we are not sure on the answer to those questions shouldn't we err on the side of the service bulletin?

Well.... do you think adding FM adds any protection to the diff?

I guess thats what it comes down to. My belief is it increases the friction in the diff so it will prevent the chatter at low speeds. That to me means it keeps the thing from working the way it was intended to. Im a chemist not an engineer so maybe someone else can chime in here but I do know that the VPC claims they used the non FM fluid when they did my 1200 mile service.

[flzrider]

Originally Posted by Papethova

Well.... do you think adding FM adds any protection to the diff?

I guess thats what it comes down to. My belief is it increases the friction in the diff so it will prevent the chatter at low speeds. That to me means it keeps the thing from working the way it was intended to. Im a chemist not an engineer so maybe someone else can chime in here but I do know that the VPC claims they used the non FM fluid when they did my 1200 mile service.

How did you get your VPC service records? I haven't been able to get mine yet.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Papethova

Well.... do you think adding FM adds any protection to the diff?

I guess thats what it comes down to. My belief is it increases the friction in the diff so it will prevent the chatter at low speeds. That to me means it keeps the thing from working the way it was intended to. Im a chemist not an engineer so maybe someone else can chime in here but I do know that the VPC claims they used the non FM fluid when they did my 1200 mile service.

Actually... I think the +FM is more slippery (than SAF-XJ) - to allow for more slip and less noise from the diff's clutch discs.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by flzrider

How did you get your VPC service records? I haven't been able to get mine yet.

PM sent

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Actually... I think the +FM is more slippery (than SAF-XJ) - to allow for more slip and less noise from the diff's clutch discs.

Thanks I couldnt decide if it was increasing or decreasing the friction. I dont know how more or less slip than intended affects the workings of the diff.

EDIT

I just looked up one example of a friction modifier for differential use and it states "Limited-slip or Positraction units use plates or clutches to provide the proper amount of lock-up to the differential. Slippery lubricants are required to prevent chatter, but too much slipperiness causes excess wheel spin, reducing traction.
For perfect traction, use Red Line 75W90NS and add the Red Line Limited-Slip Differential Friction-Modifier / Break-In Additive until the chatter disappears."

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Papethova

EDIT

I just looked up one example of a friction modifier for differential use and it states "Limited-slip or Positraction units use plates or clutches to provide the proper amount of lock-up to the differential. Slippery lubricants are required to prevent chatter, but too much slipperiness causes excess wheel spin, reducing traction.
For perfect traction, use Red Line 75W90NS and add the Red Line Limited-Slip Differential Friction-Modifier / Break-In Additive until the chatter disappears."

Yes, Allan - I think that statement is correct. In order to get rid of the chattter - you want to add some slip to the diff's clutch plates. But not too much.

You can buy these Friction Modifier additives separately. They come in a very small quanity: like 25 or 50ml - to add to 1L or diff oil. LiquMoly makes one...

[ayao]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I thought I might as well post this info here too, since this IS the sticky. PyratOne's awesome diff fluid thread...

1M limited slip differential information
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1#post10976891

Ok guys... today I went to my BMW Zentrum and asked about the diff fluids for the 1M. Here is what I found out. The factory fill oil for the diff is Castrol SAF-XJ. NOT the +FM, just the regular SAF-XJ oil. This oil should be changed at the first service 2,000 kms or 1,200 miles on M cars. This oil is spec'd for the M3 e90, e92, e93 and 1er M Coupe, aka e82 M Coupe, aka 1M.

You need three 500ml bottles to change the diff oil out. The diff holds 1.2L

Castrol SAF-XJ BMW part number: 83222282583 for one 500ml bottle. cost is 24 euros per bottle at my BMW Zentrum.

I also asked about the Castrol SAF-XJ+FM diff oil. My dealer had never heard of this +FM stuff... but it is a good part number. The price of +FM is 30 euros per 500ml bottle. But it is interesting that BMW AG does not say to use it. At least not in their latest service info to the dealers over here.

I'm (still) a little confused. Isn't the part # referenced above (83222282583) correspond to the (+) FM diff fluid?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ayao

I'm (still) a little confused. Isn't the part # referenced above (83222282583) correspond to the (+) FM diff fluid?

Shoot(!) your right. How I did I miss THAT!



NOTE - I edited my post from yesterday with the TSB on the proper oil for M cars. You should use Castrol SAF-XJ+FM, see my above post with the TSB.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by flzrider

Exactly my point. Since we are not sure on the answer to those questions shouldn't we err on the side of the service bulletin?

So I'm with you on this one flzrider. Like you pointed out, that service bulletin makes it pretty clear that the correct fluid is (+)FM. Time to start compiling the 1200 mile run-in service Dossier for my SA.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ayao

So I'm with you on this one flzrider. Like you pointed out, that service bulletin makes it pretty clear that the correct fluid is (+)FM. Time to start compiling the 1200 mile run-in service Dossier for my SA.

Yes, the fluid that BMW NA and AG(going by the above TSB I picked up yesterday) is that the +FM fluid is what BMW calls for when the 1M/M3's come in for servicing.


But the factory fill oil is SAF-XJ (w/o the +FM).

Personally I really would not worry IF you had your first service done and they used the regular SAF-XJ (w/o the +FM). I think its only a concern IF you go from +FM to non FM fluid.


Dackel

[bentone]

RE: the transmission fluid - has anybody actually put the Porsche-labeled stuff in their tranny? Not sure if I want to be the first to make the leap...but planning to pick it up from the Porsche dealer today. I understand it's supposed to be the exact same product but would be nice to have confirmation from somebody else who actually did it and hasn't experienced any issues. Thanks in advance.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by bentone

RE: the transmission fluid - has anybody actually put the Porsche-labeled stuff in their tranny? Not sure if I want to be the first to make the leap...but planning to pick it up from the Porsche dealer today. I understand it's supposed to be the exact same product but would be nice to have confirmation from somebody else who actually did it and hasn't experienced any issues. Thanks in advance.

I have not used the Porsche stuff. But here is a PDF from ZF stating it is the SAME fluid. Also look at this pic someone posted of the MTF-LT-5 manual trans fluid. It says "Pentosin" right on the bottle!

Look at the box labeled:

S6-45 According to spare part number of vehicle manufacturer:
- Pentosin FFL-3

=> BMW Oil No. 8322 2167 666 (MTF-LT-5)


ZF_Lubricants_TE-ML 11_en0700.pdf

[bentone]

Yep, thanks. I believe that it is the same fluid, just hoping for that extra bit of comfort from somebody else who actually used it.

I'm also going to do an "inspection" of the old stuff after it comes out. Will post pictures if there's anything interesting...